Betting Black Box Summary
Neutral Pending Further Review
10th december 2009 – Note From Admin
Well that is the end of the review and I’m happy to say that the system PASSED the 1 month Trial with flying colours. Using 5% Liability the bank increased by 16.4% in 30 days. With a level stakes profit of 11.77 points. I will now wait for Tonys conclusion on whether he would recommend buying the Betting Black Box.
Tony’s End of Test Summary
Hi Bloggers I was very pleased with the system over the course of the one month trial.
I have to be honest and confess (as you know) that I did miss one day due to being stuck in Birmingham with no access to the Internet, but did one extra day to compensate, which also proved profitable!
I would definitely recommend the system to anybody. For the purposes of the trial I stuck rigidly to the rules of the system and noted every bet in a spreadsheet. For my own betting purposes, I did not stick to the rules so closely, but used my own judgement and actually made a greater profit, but I am happier to take more risks than the author did with his system!
Sticking closely to the rules produced a profit of £164.19 from the initial bank of £1,000 which is an excellent return in my book. At a level stakes profit the system produced an overall profit of 11.77 points, which showed that the 5% liability betting system proved to be a good one to follow.
Thanks To Paul for updating the original figure of £541.56 which was a spreadsheet error. The system produced a 16.4% increase on the bank in 30 days to 5% liability.
The rules are very simple to understand and within a couple of days it was only taking me 15 to 20 minutes each day to select the horses that the system produced, dependent upon the number of meetings each day. The author suggested not using any of the Irish race meetings, so I was happy to oblige, as I have never really done well with them on my own systems!
There were one or two rules that I needed some clarification on and Stephen was very helpful in his communication and guidance, which is another great plus point for the system in my view. I have purchased too many systems in the past where the supplier has been great at bombarding me with sales emails (even after I bought the product from them!) but singularly failed to answer any of my email questions about their systems.
I am definitely going to continue using the system as it has proved very valuable in my betting and has increased my bank significantly.
If anybody wants to ask me any questions about the trial I am more than happy to answer them in due course.
Cheers Tony
Passed 5/5 Stars
- All
By The Book Rating:
Passed 4.5/5 Stars
- U Can't Lose Rating:
- Bonus Bagging Rating:
- Betfair ATM Rating:
- Golden Key Method 2 Rating:
- Layers Of Profit Rating:
- Michaels Place Lay Formula Rating:
Martin Vetter says: Anything on this one yet??
john says: Thanks for the update have checked back the other posts this sys has not done that well recently will leave alone at present working on my own sys which leaves this lot in the shade wonder if james would proof it
I have placed Betting black box into the neutral section until further analysis is carried out.
john says: Hi Tony can you let me know how this sys is doing at present and if poss an update on the winners interested in this one since it appears in the passed area
Thanks John
Tony Ryan says: I contacted the author about these claims that the system is for the flat racing only and he replied immediately with “I’ve got no idea why they’ve made that claim. I’ll email them now”
Hope this helps
Tony
tuca says: general i contacted them about that a couple of days after i got the system they said if they are 1st and 2nd favs you must lay both.
general says: Welcome back Tony.
Yes I emailed it to James, but drop me your email address please or email me at paulebrey4@hotmail.com and I will email it to you. Basically on some of the winners, the liability was not taken off, simply the stake. This obviously had an impact on the bank update.
Fair point about Betfair SP, Im not a fan of it as I dont feel Im in control but a fair point.
Id be interested in your thoughts about paulswilk’s comments where he contacted the author who told them it was flat only, goes against the manual which has for example a handicap chase as an example and a winning distance of 10L for 3 miles.
Also what do you do if 2 horses qualify in 1 race, this has happened on 2 occasions, do you lay them both or the shortest.??
Tony Ryan says: @general
You talk about a spreadsheet posted by James on the forum – can you let me know the location so that i can see if it is the same as my review results?
Tony Ryan says: @general
I don;t find the prices a problem. If you use the SP facility on Betfair you can place your bet at a maximum SP of 5.5 and then go away. If it finishes above that price, no problem, as you have not spent any money. If it finishes at or below 5.5 then your bet is valid
Tony Ryan says: Hi All
I have just got back from a couple of months working in India and the Middle East. I have not used the system since finishing the review as it proved so awkward and too unreliable for me to get fast Internet access at the right times of the day (they are 5.5 hours ahead!). If anybody wants me to send them a copy of my spreadsheet in which I recorded the results of the trial, then I am happy to send it to them (subject only to James giving me the OK). If there are mistakes in it then I apologise, but both James and I checked it carefully. The results still stand, or so I believe, unless somebody can show me some horrendous errors that I have made whilst carrying out the review. I cannot make any comments about the results since I finished the test, but now that I am back, I will resume my use of the system in the next few days and see if it matches up to some of the outrageous comments! I cannot answer every comment raised in the forum, as there are far too many of them, but I will try and answer the ones that I can, as and when I get the time to trawl through them all.
Thanks for your patience
Tony
Tony Ryan says: The system does not need any additional subscriptions – all the information is available on free sites such as timeform, at the races and sporting life. As for the long term profitability, I cannot really say. As you will have seen from my previous posts, I have been away for the last 2 months, so have not used it since the review period (30 days) ended. I will start to use it again in the next few days.
General says: hi tuca, you could no email me the selections and results from fri, sat and sun could you please? I can update spreadhseet then. paulebrey4@hotmail.com, not spam I promise
tuca says: hello gen its had 3 of its better days sat sun and today 6 out of 6,i have only been laying at 3.5 or less for the last 6 days and have had 10 losers 2 winners clawed back a bit more off my losses the system is 17 losers 6 winners for the same 6 days for a loss at level stakes.
General says: OK, then 1 horse Crazy Chris was 2nd in the last at Wolverhampton today, the only qualifier.
So with a base of £1,000, 5% of the bank is £200 liability divided by the Betfair SP of 1.36 equals £147.05 lay.
So after 5% commission deducted, the bank stands at £1139.70.
At level pts = +0.95pts
general says: Hi James, I have been away for the weekend ( lucky me ) and am happy to conduct this. I will start with 1 Feb selections, tuca, paulswilk, may need some help with selections at the weekend as the mrs tends to get most of my time then. I have 1 listed today that is a lay. We will keep a record of the lays and the “rejects”.
paulswilk that is a fascinating stat about the handicap hurdles and chases, that is mentioned nowhere in the manual, and Tony used this for his trial. Also, if you have the email address of the Black Box people let me know, please. email me paulebrey4 at hotmail.com
Yeh this does seem to be heading down the tube but i need another review performed independantly on the blog each day so it can be recategorised. I did set General up to do this but havent heard anything for a while.
tuca says: It certainly looks that way paulswilk.
paulswilk says: Well that just sums the whole thing up tuca, they don’t even know their own system! Muppets!
tuca says: hello paulswilk the rules state it must be a handicap race it ran in before and must be a handicap race its running in now,no other races count only (handicaps.)and the other rules take in 24f races or longer and there are not many flat races that long so has to be hurdles and chases.agree its a crap system.
paulswilk says: Update:
horse no.2 in 6th race at Lingfield drifted so was not strictly a system pick at the start of the race – it lost
wolves 1st race horse no 1 won
This is a crap system!
paulswilk says: Interesting tuca, I contacted the Black Box people to ask whether to include handicap hurdles and chases and they said no, but I see you’re including them.
So my picks for today are:
ling 2nd race, 5 and 9, came in 1st and 2nd, 5 stepping up in class won it, 9 was in same class as last race but traded as low as 1.01 in running!
ling 6th race no 2
wolves 1st race no1
Keep us informed about the rejects gen, as this sounds like a cracking backing system, especially when a horse steps up in class.
tuca says: the 1.20 donc was no.15.
tuca says: hello gen the horses i have seen that meet rules and have been in the price range are ling 2nd race no.9 and no.5.newb 3rd no.4 and 5th no.2.chep 4th no.2.ling 6th no.4.wolv 1st no.1.the 1.20 at donc may have met the price i did not see it but it could have at some time.
General says: and also horses that are ahead of the handicapper and just doing enough aren’t been legislated for in this system, Noun de la Thinte of Venetia Williams is a point.
General says: Can anyone note todays selections please ( Friday ) and put them up here, just the meeting, what number race and horse number please. I dont have time to log them today. I agree paulswilk, I have canned the system at the moment and monitoring what I call the “rejects” and the lays. Could be a backing opportunity rather than a lay one
tuca says: I know paulswilk i only laid 1 that was less than 3.5 got it at 3.0 was a same class and won.another two came into the price range just before the off 1 won 1 lost and two of them that met the rules but not the price won as well thought you may have hit on something but i cant see anything working if you were on all six today at £10 level stakes you would be £59 down.
paulswilk says: I knew it – I had 4 selections today, 3 in the same class which I laid – all 3 won, and 1 which was stepping up a couple of classes, which I left alone, and it lost. Can I swear on here?
paulswilk says: I’ve been monitoring the relative success of selections racing in the same class against those that go up a class, or two. Since 8/1/10 the results have been the opposite to what you would instinctively feel – success for selections in the same class has been an impressive 90%, returning a system profit. Where the horse steps up in class the success rate is a poor 40%, resulting in an overall system loss.
So, I’m going to stick with same class selections, and just monitor the others. But, I wouldn’t recommend anyone else following my lead as, knowing my luck, the results will change from this point onwards.
tuca says: Hello gen had the same today and yesterday one step forward two back i will carry on a bit longer may try only laying at 3.5 or less see if it makes any difference.
General says: Todays selections encompassed 2 horses, 1 winning, 1 losing, out of 3 rejected, we had 2 winners and 1 loser. This system has now been binned by me, I have calculated I have lost over £100 this month on it. I have written to James as well asking him to put this in as neutral. I will continue to monitor results while attempting to get my money back on it. Selections are available for proofing…
General says: Last week, there were 14 qualifiers, 5 winners.
To a £1 unit stake, a loss was seen of £6.01 after commission
Using the 5% liability, a £1,000 bank at the start of the week would end up with £854.19.
All selections available for proofing…
General says: sorry to hear that Tuca.
tuca says: just the one general and its just won another losing day.
General says: I havent looked today tuca, was there anything qualified….
tuca says: just the three for me general 2 losers 1 winner slight loss on the day.
general says: 1 winner, 1 loser then Tuca
tuca says: hello general I have layed the 3 at catt the 4th at ling and the second at wolv so far.
general says: i have tuca, 1 in race 3 at catterick, 2 in races 4 and 7 at lingfield and 1 in race 2 at wolves at present. I will be backing ironically the horse at wolves tonight……
General says: thanks tuca, good luck mate
tuca says: Hello again general i have just double checked they were system lays dont think i can name them your right about the 3rd at taunton 1 on distance and another in same race never made the odds and your right about the last at southwell but there was another in that race that qualified and def one in 5th at taunton glad you layed a couple anyway.there are 9 that meet the system rules tomorrow but only 2 or 3 will prob meet the odds.
well done Tuca. I did not get any qualifiers personally at Southwell, the last one was eliminated by me on class grounds. again could only see race 3 at taunton which was eliminated on winning distance. Anyway I laid 2 losers from 2, sounds like youve had a great day. Well done
tuca says: hello general the 5th and 6th at southwell the 2 at wolv and 5th at taunton.The 2 that were hovering both came down i layed 1 at 4.2 and 1 at 4.9 they both went out to 6.0 at the off all five lost so a good day today.
tuca says: general i have 3 layed and there are a couple hovering close to the top odds.
general says: <blockquote cite=\"#commentbody-153\">
<strong><a href=\"#comment-153\">Betting System Guru</a> :</strong>
<p>Tony is not in the country at the moment and finished his review last month. I know there are people using the system we have to wait for someone to comment im afraid.</p>
</blockquote>
James, I note Tony says that Stephen is an easy one to get hold with with queries. I have one from last weekend, how do I do this please?
general says: I make nothing this afternoon Tuca, agreed?
tuca says: yes not the best start for the week.
General says: agree Tuca, so since Monday, 6 selections, 3 winners, 3 losers, well down so far this week.
tuca says: The other winner was about 4.5.
tuca says: Hello general i layed the last one at 2.16, just before the off he was around 1.96/2.00,if were on the same race.
General says: agree tuca, 3 selections, 2 winners, do you know the Betfair SP of the 2nd winner, I know it was 4-5 SP
tuca says: There are 3 today general the first one won its race.
general says: I am keeping alog of these selections from today for 1 month. I would be grateful if people could add any that I miss. Dont state the horse, just 1 earlier today etc.
So yesterday we had 1 horse I make it, 1 loser.
Today I have a shortlist of 2
tuca says: same here 2 out of 3 made a slight profit on them.
General says: 1 winner, 2 losers for me, went in a bit early on the middle one and the last one so impacted on returns a little today, slight loss on those 3 selections for the day but a small profit overall today..
tuca says: hello general yes i had those 2 but also got the price to lay 2 others last night so i had 4 out 4 today,that is 10 in a row after that bad run of 8 winners,pity you missed the 3 on saturday general.still minus but looking a bit better.
general says: 2 lays from 2 for me today, anyone back this up?? didnt lay Saturday Tuca, well done on you doing so
tuca says: general/paulswilk another good day today 3 out of 3.
r.wardle says: yes guys i too purchased this black box system with exactly the same results that your showing. to be honest i would have been delighted if this system was for picking winners.I have no faith whatsoever in it and would have no confidence in laying one more selection it throws up. back to the drawing board!!
R.WARDLE. MIKE
philip says: Hi guys I used this system back in November and found it too be profitable. To be honest it was the only system that I had come across at that point, which actually applied any racing logic, I also found that the selections which did not meet the criteria (i.e. exceeded it in some way) quite often won their races.
Philip
General says: Yes got the last one laid at Lingfield today. Good day today for me, hope things have turned around…
tuca says: 1 out of 1 then did not know that one was withdrawn.
tuca says: 2 out of 2 today general thigs are looking up.
General says: sorry just realised it was withdrawn ;(
General says: well 1 I have laid at Southwell has got beat. 5.58 Betfair SP so I should have missed it out really. Ah well, back on track ( hopefully ) with this..
general says: paulswilk / luca, this to me exposes another flaw in the system, the fact Betfair SP is used to calculate results. As you can see from my note above, you have to wait right until the off for some selections hence why I dodged the last one today ( despite it getting beat ). You almost have to leave a back order on the exchange in case it drifts.
tuca says: I must be a mug as well am going to carry on for a while,think i need about 20 odd to break even.
paulswilk says: I had 9 consecutive winners before today’s loser in the 3.40 (I layed it at 4.0 early in the day like tuca).
I reckon it would take around 34 consecutive losers before I get back to break even but, like a typical mug punter, I’m going to persevere for a while.
tuca says: yes it drifted out but i had already layed it at 4.0.Its going 2 take a few losing lays just to get back to break even.
general says: last one luca i did not lay ironically enough, the Betfair price was too big for me prior to the off ( 5.5 I think the ceiling is ). Laid it on another system.
tuca says: 8 winners and a loser at last.
general says: last one I did not lay, price was too big
tuca says: the 2 that did not qualify both lost,I did lay them both so have just about covered myself if the next system lay wins.
tuca says: correct one more to go today.
general says: another one gone in I make it at Southwell
general says: All, I have posted a comment in the forum about this based on James’ excellent spreadsheet posted on there.
As far as I see it, to me, there is a blip with the winners’ returns calculated incorrectly on some of the winning selections.
The flat stakes profit marries up, the bank growth to me does not. Id urge you to calculate it yourself please. Thanks..
General says: Betting System Guru, I understand that you need longer than 3 days to test a trial. However, I would be interested in finding Tony\’s list of horses / selections that were laid or shortlisted. I would like to satisfy myself that I am following the rules correctly. As racing is off at the moment, it would give me something to do. Is there a link to this please?
tuca says: It has had 7 winners in a row 4 on the 3rd 2 on the 4th and 1 today.
2 days is not conclusive of wether it should be binned. Like we stated in the trial. It passed Tonys review. Which was longer than a few days. I dont use the system so i cant really comment about it, but i know 2 days is not a fair reflection.
The Lay Formula (my 2007 system) that i still use today has bad patches 5 times as bad as this but ive been using it for 3 years and profit every year!
hkyhnel says: @General
I have papertraded this for the last few days and 4 selections jan 3. came out to win their races and 2 winners yesterday so I am throwing this system in the failed box.
Tony is not in the country at the moment and finished his review last month. I know there are people using the system we have to wait for someone to comment im afraid.
General says: Well I make it 3 wins from the last 3 selections for this including one today at Southwell at 5-1 on top of 2 yesterday at Wolverhampton. Can anyone back this data up please?
Tony / James, any chance of commenting on this please?
Terry Webster says: Did anybody notice that all 4 selections for Betting Black Box went on to win their races on the 3rd January?
Scary or coincidence?
general says: Hi Tony, the difficulty I see with this is the price.
For some horses I am finding you need to place the bet as near to the start time as possible due to the minimum and maximum prices. There is 1 horse I have laid that was well within the parameters but drifted and was above the maximum come the off. Have you found the same?
parpsy says: gizzard, I don’t see the discrepancies you mentioned. Betfair shows times using your local timezone .. the times in the screenshots are simply offset by 2hrs.
gizzard says: I took a look at the sale page of Betting Black Box and a quick check of the Betfair screen shot shows me that it is completely fictional. If you check the actual results on those days there are discrepancies in both race times and distances.
Your trial may have been successful but I would never purchase from a company that has false advertising.
vknight says: Hi
Just 2 questions:
1. Does the system require subscription to other services such as racingpost?
2. In your personal opinion, can the system proof to be profitable in the long run?
TQ and Kind regards
